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eb
(15-Sep-2003)-
a mind game? |
Sir,
I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with Korean women, but please be careful about judging the "majority" by a few experiences. You know, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. I'm curious if you're just feeling hurt and want to cry out. (I've seen this same message posted elsewhere on the forum; obviously you haven't had the best luck with relationships.)
Korean and Western culture do seem to contradict one another. I think that is the factor that hinders relationships as well as the individual people who choose to stick to those cultures. These different cultures are like the same poles of two magnets pointed towards each other... they repel! But, if you move the magnets around a bit, turning and such, they eventually can't resist the attraction.
I'm curious how you can criticize and expect someone to change their culture; did you consider yours?
Americans can be self-righteous and very opinionated. We think we know the best way and we are happy if everyone else falls in line. We are quick to judge anything that is different or confusing, and we would rather point fingers outward than inward. We feel like we are the most accepting of individuals, but we are easily the first to label and condemn. A bit harsh? Well, it takes one to know one! These are many of the characteristics I've seen in myself as I've come up against Korean culture.
Try examining how you reflect your own culture- good and bad. You can easily be judged, labeled, condemned. It's much healthier to look at yourself instead of pointing your finger at a group of people.
Relationships can be headaches... even two people of the same nationality will attest to that. Culture differences can throw another kink in the gears, true, but so can a lot of other things... religion, money, jobs, children.
Another thing, if you come in with an "exit strategy", you'll probably use it. Why not come in with an open mind? Something that takes a lot of work should be worth the effort.
The best to you in the future.
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Mrs_Hwang
(19-Sep-2003)-
Stop and consider, techydriver |
I feel very moved to reply to techydriver's messsage. Eb is quite right, techydriver has posted many times about his sad tale. I am sure the man is hurting and all his messages are a way for him to vent his anger. I find it a credit to the Korean people on this forum that they have never answered him harshly, in fact, they answer him with respect and even concern for his welfare. He has the temerity to say:
"there may be good sincere and respectable Koreans out there so I am not hinting you to be paranoid. I am just talking about the majority)."
The majority??
I just want to state here that I am a round eye. I am on the outside looking in. Techydriver, I find your statement insulting. I have been in close contact with people who think like you: giving labels (and usually quite negative ones) to a WHOLE race of people. In fact, I think Hitler did that with the Jews and look where that led?
If you are upset about your failed relationship then please seek help. Venting your anger on a whole race of people is not going to help you to come to terms with what happened. It will only continue the hurt. Thinking that all Korean women are like your lost love is absolutely ridiculous. To be honest, when I first started reading this forum I became quite distressed because your messages were almost like a poison. I think your thoughts are potentially dangerous and yet you are blind to the fact that the people here have never been unkind to you.
I also wish you the best in the future. I also wish that you may find that special person in your life, wherever she may come from. But, being the female that I am, I would strongly urge you to speak with a counsellor (I take it you are still in the UK, counselling is free on the NHS and nothing to be ashamed of).
And, eb, that is a very astute observation of the American mind fix but, again, not all Americans are alike. Trust me, I know from personal experience;-)
Peace to all of you,
Mrs_Hwang
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eb
(19-Sep-2003)-
wish I had a good explanation |
Sir,
I am deeply sorry that you were hurt as you were. And, I am sorry if my first reply seemed to be without compassion. I, too, have struggled with this strange culture. Strange because it is unlike the culture that is familiar and comfortable to me.
It doesn't make sense when a person of any nationality places more value on material things than a relationship, and seeking those kinds of things will never lead to happiness. I think young Korean women find a sense of security in material things. The Korean economy is not very good. Many people are poor. Good jobs are almost impossible to find, and your job is your status symbol. When you meet a Korean person for the first time, one of the most common inquiries, besides your age, is your occupation. And, a good job means good pay... so, material things become status symbols, security, comfort. It doesn't make it right or fair, but it may be a reason.
In my university, I met many Korean students. They were fun, free, excited. Now we meet in Korea... it's a bit different. Life here is EXTREMELY busy. They don't have time; sometimes I don't have time here! I dream of America and free time. For Koreans, going overseas is a holiday. They don't have to study nearly as much as they do here. Korean highschool, compared to others, is hell. Students wake up at 6 and begin to study. They don't finish studying until 1 am. It's a routine that occurs on the weekends. All of this for the high school exam that determines which college they enter. (Note: if you don't enter one of the top 3 colleges in Seoul, you are practically doomed. And sometimes, even if you do, you are out of luck. Korean parents go to shrines and pray for days for their children to pass the exam. If their children don't seem to be doing well, the mothers won't eat for days.) So, once Korean students enter college, they go nuts. Graduation is practically guaranteed, so they don't have to go to class or study. The name of the school is the only thing that matters. Then, they go to graduate school to get a real education.
Maybe this matter influences their behavior around that time. I'm not sure that much is taken seriously. Korean men must serve in the military for two years. Most of them finish between the ages of 25-27. Then, they have to be financially stable before even thinking about marriage. You can't rent apartments in Korea. You lease them for years at a time with an initial downpayment of, at least, $10,000. (That's for a one room in the basement.) Also, it is tradition that the wife should furnish the house... that's also pricy. So, Korean people generally expect to marry between the ages of 28-30. Of course, there are exceptions both ways, but as far as I can tell, this is the norm. So, meeting a foreigner when your young is romantic, enjoyable, but maybe not serious. Some open minded Koreans hoping to flee this gauntlet of tradition, however, are really seeking a true foreign relationship. It's a breath of fresh air for them.
Korean parents are a completely different species in my book, but they are well respected and they have their motivations. Their children are their lives. They absolutely do everything for their children, and, generally, the children reciprocate when their parents are older. Since daughters generally spend all of their time with the husband's family after marriage(holidays, vacations, even living together), daughters are the hardest to let go. Parents know that their sons will stick around... they may even be living with one of them. My grandfather is a wonderful man, but bless his heart, he carries some prejudices. I knew I could never marry a black man because my grandfather wouldn't be comfortable, and the man might never feel accepted. I do love my grandfather, even though I think he's narrow minded. I feel sorry for him, and I'm thankful I was never in a situation to have to make that decision, but, a lot of Korean people are. It's not fair, but think of how difficult it must be for them. And, for some reason unknown, they are ashamed to express those feelings and struggles.
I have wanted to understand many aspects of Korean culture for a long time, too. My closest friend in America was Korean. When I married my husband, a Korean and a friend of her husband's, I asked her to be the maid of honor in our wedding. The week before the wedding she told me that her friend from Korea was flying in from Canada to come to my wedding. Therefore, she would need to spend time with this friend so she could not come to any of the wedding parties. I was crushed. As an American, I had a high expectation of my maid of honor to be beside me. I couldn't believe her nerve. We talked about it and I was honest that I needed my maid of honor to be beside me. We decided that she would step down and I called my college roommate and asked her to step in. To this day it causes some grief. However, I understand her mind, and she was trying to be gracious to her friend. What I saw as an invasion of privacy- inviting a stranger to my wedding- she saw as an extension of friendship. What I saw as betrayal- not coming to any wedding parties- she saw as hospitality for her friend. In my heart, I wish our thinking had been the same. But, I don't want hard feelings, so I had to let go. I can empathize with you.
We have liberated minds, but this country is not so liberated. Korean people have been oppressed, bullied, and puppets in the hands of world powers. They are recovering, amazingly fast, on the outside, but the inside minds are slow to catch up. With their history of foreign interference, I can understand how foreign relationships are not comfortable for older generations. Unfortunate, but true.
As I've combated these and other aspects of Korean culture, I've seen the bad sides of my culture come out. I've been so judgemental instead of understanding. It's taken a while to find compassion for these people who are so different than me, but I have and I still am. I'm sure you are a compassionate person as well, and your warnings are intended that others not get hurt as you were. That is honorable.
As a Christian, I hope my words are not in vain. I think I know a lot, but I haven't been to every corner of the world... there is a lot more to know. I thought I knew it all in America, serving "my" God within my culture (making mistakes along the way)... little did I know, God is not so contained. Christians are people who accept that we aren't perfect; it's that same imperfection that makes us try to find our worth in perfection. Christians are little different from, shall we say, "non-christians", except that we believe an act of God, not an act of our own will, is our salvation. But... I've gone on too long.
Sir, I've offered my own insights to hopefully be helpful for you or anyone else who might run across it. The times are changing, here and elsewhere... so this may be history in a matter of time. Our experiences shape us, that's for sure, but let's be wise enough not to let them rule us.
Best to you.
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eb
(20-Sep-2003)-
from a Korean mind |
I discussed these things with my husband, a Korean with an open mind. Enough that he would love and marry someone from another culture so different than his own.
His explanation of the driving forces still continuing the traditional way of thinking are parents and money.
Koreans live with their parents until they are married. (sometimes even afterwards) It is an old tradition, but these days very practical as the economy is so poor and it is financially impossible for one to set out on their own. (that is, without support from parents) Going abroad is likely to be the first experience for a Korean being "on their own". While the children are under their parents' roof, the parents provide everything- school tuition, food, vacation, clothes... Koreans are perpetual children until they are married.
For this reason, Koreans tend to have a different mind towards their parents than westerners. They have seen their parents sacrifice- long work hours, selling things, going without- just so their children can have plenty. It is very common for Korean parents to purchase a home for a new married couple. It's a natural cycle supported by tradition and a continuing poor economy. When children marry, it is a kind of turning point... now they must begin to help their parents; the male children, that is. Koreans love their parents, but it's different than a "friendship" love like many westerners have with their parents. It is a reverent love, a deep respect, and a regretful, sorrowful love that their parents have had to give up so much. At the same time, they are indebtedly grateful. For these reasons, they are unwilling to go against their parents wishes. Even if they disagree with their parents in their deepest heart, they will follow because of this devotion.
Sometimes I'm shamed by this. I don't have such regard for my folks, but I realize that within my culture, I do. And I don't think my parents feel that I have let them down by marrying a foreigner and moving across the world. (Though many Korean parents might feel exactly that.) My parents raised me to be independent.
Western culture fosters individuals. Individual rights and decisions are respected, and independence is encouraged and valued. Elderly westerners don't want to be coddled. They want to be independent even as their abilities decline and they need care. Westerners have a fighting spirit to be free and on our own. Parents generally stop supporting their children long before they get married. Children often pay their own tuition, insurance and credit card bills. There is an abundance of jobs and ways to make money, so this lifestyle is unhindered.
Eastern culture is collective. Things are done for the good of society according to the opinions of others, especially elders, and very especially family. Korean people don't often say, "I feel", "I think", "I want." They have accepted that the best way is to submit and follow. Kind of gets on a westerner's nerves, right? Especially when feelings are involved.
So, I guess the question is, how do we truly come together, or can we? Do both cultures have to give up something? Give up everything? We're all human, we all bleed, so why is it so difficult? As someone who believes in freedom and independence, I hope for revolution and change. But, as someone who tries to respect and understand, I know it's hardly fair for me to require that.
I know that shallow thinking comes in all shapes, sizes, cultures and with all good reasons and bad reasons. None of us are prone to be without flawed thinking and flawed reasoning. It's when we try to make sense of things that we get frustrated. We're all trying to make sense of something that is different from us, maybe even an element of our own, familiar, culture. It's the patience in trying that will eventually get us somewhere...
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Mrs_Hwang
(21-Sep-2003)-
re: from a Korean mind |
Hi eb,
Your husband is a very gracious man to explain so eloquently. I hope that this will help techydriver to understand, perhaps to forgive, if necessary, and move on with his life. I know when I was hurt it was absolutely vital for my well-being and advancement to move on.
Human beings either evolve or die-out. I know that Koreans have an indomitable spirit either fighting for their own country (they have had thoughts of independence in the past), wishing to be re-united or simply wanting to retain their unique culture. And I know their spirit will see them through the changes they are going through.
I really do not have much more I wish to add on the subject. I send out my love and good wishes to the people of Korea:-)
For techydriver, you know, your two-faced girlfriend probably did not deserve the love and devotion you gave her. I hope that one day you WILL find someone and be happy together.
Luv,
Hwang Boo-yin
xoxox
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sleepyhead
(24-Sep-2003)-
Thank you Eb and techydiver |
Hello both of you,
Wow, reading your two very different replies have really really changed my mind on the different cultures. I understand Eb and her husband must have been through alot to make it work. It's true that trying to persuade a korean girl to make her believe in me is difficult. As they want to be in their culture and language as it is the easiest to communicate. She remains extremely difficult to influence but i hope time can do the trick. But it seems difficult as they are culturally more stubborn and devoted to their parents. They would place their parents' future well being as one of their first priority.
I think what i believe is that she must learn that it's not only her and the guy has to be considered (like me) i speak mandarin and she should have thought of learning mandarin too. But i must bridge the gap between us before considering about myself.
What stands before is a question i ask, is she really the one for me to make enough sacrifices and patience to make it work? I think everyone here in this forum should ask themselves. How much time and how much then is enough to win them over with sincerity?
I think sincerity is what Korean girls (some of which are not that materialistic) would be one factor that decides the relationship. So i think i got rather hyped up for the next phase after reading both replies.
This girl is testing me now, she tries to do her work till late and asks me to pick her up..So it's a test to see how committed am i to her before she decides to commit herself to me. I known her for quite awhile and i think she has a wonderful and down to earth character which is so difficult to find nowadays. So it all depends on the person who wants to win their heart and of course the right one that you are looking for..Best wishes to all trying to make two cultures join into one..Tata
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eb
(25-Sep-2003)-
it takes two... |
Yes. No matter what culture, what age, what religion and so on, it takes TWO people willing to sacrifice, willing to be patient, willing to understand, willing to endure, willing to give effort, willing to commit, willing to forgive... you get the idea.
And when TWO people have minds like that, though they may have lapses, that is love. Not attraction, not curiousity, not persuasion, not frustration... love.
Before I was married I read something along the lines of "Marriage is not the joining of two worlds, it is the abandonment of those worlds to create a new world." So it is with international relationships. We must abandon all of ourself before we can begin to adhere to the important things in each of our "worlds". (It's easier to out everything than to out the bad, especially when the bad is good in our eyes.) I thank God that my husband was willing to abandon. I thank God that I was willing to abandon, though it is not all so easy to actually do as it is to simply being willing!
My dad always told me that if I was giving a speech, I should get everyone's attention by saying, "sex", and then proceed with my report, which might have been on earthworms. Techydriver, you surely got attention with your thread title, and may all of the conversations that follow be fruitful for the lives of people who are simply trying to understand.
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moonlite82
(17-Oct-2003)-
re: a mind game? |
I dated a korean men last summer while studying in Seoul.
Sad to say but it's my worst experience. Is it normal for Korean guys to call every hour, follow and control each step of a girl????
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RichardG
(18-Oct-2003)-
re: re: a mind game? |
I am sorry, guys.
I disagree with most of you respectfully.
You cannot generalize Korean men by having one bad relationship. It is like you hate black people because one black guy mugged my aunt. Come on, you are supposed to live in an international community. You went overseas by your choice. Of course, you will run into good times and bad, good people and bad also. Please be open minded and please don't categorize people. They are all different!!
I live in Chicago with many other ethnic groups. Of course, I dated white, Asians, Latins and others. In fact, I was married to a white for a long time. Take your time until you find the right man for you. Do not judge by one or two bad men you've run into in your life.
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Gia
(20-Oct-2003)-
re: Dating a KOREAN??? - BEWARE!!! |
I am sorry to say that in your situation perhaps Money would have kept your girl. In that case you are better off without her. My Father married a Korean woman and she became our stepmother. I have never met a woman as materialistic, judgemental, controlling, or arrogant. She has softened in her old age and has actually started to attend church, more out of fear than anything else. I love her however, I do not like her as a person. All her children have had problems but are good people inspite of her abuse and of course we are very respectful of her and shower her with gifts. Thank goodness my Father is wealthy because she demanded so many material things and he gave her the world. She treated him like dirt and made our life a living hell. I am sorry to say that most of her friends are no different than her. I have read articles in city papers regarding the negative reputation of Koreans abroad and the accounts have fit my experience with a majority of the people I have met during my 8 years in Korea and the US. I am not stereotyping but, just relaying my own experiences. I have met and worked with lots of nice and professional Korean men. An friend of mine is an expert on Korea who instructs at Oxford and likened the Korean women to Italian women similar in temperment. Funny thing...My Stepmom said that I shouldn't marry a halfasian because the kids would turn out stupid and funny looking. Best of luck to you in the future. PS-I wish my Dad didn't have money!!!
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RichardG
(21-Oct-2003)-
re: re: Dating a KOREAN??? - BEWARE!!! |
Gia,
Your message shut my mouth up so quickly.... I am very sorry what's happened to you. Inspite of all that, I hope that you wouldn't judge every Korean the same way. Good luck!
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RichardG
(21-Oct-2003)-
re: Re: Funny thing??? - Gia |
Hey Joe, (a nice tune by Jimmy H, isn't it?)
What Gia described in her message was shocking to me. It sounded like having an evil stepmom controlling step-children and their father. Sound familiar, Cinderella story? However, I decide that it must be an extreme case. Not all the Koreans are the same way. Not all the Koreans hate Japanese. Not all the Koreans are arrogant. As the same token, not every French is rude and arrogant.
I went to Rio de Janeiro last year for carnival and I had an opportunity to meet the locals. Among many things that I like about Brazil, I was impressed that there is little prejudice over any race. The fact is that everyone in Brazil is mixed, so called "Half and half, or Quarter and the rest(you do the math)." They have Potuguese, Spanish, German, natives, all mixed. They are all beautiful and fun loving people. It was truly an international community.
I am a Korean living in USA with my children who are "Half and half." I always preach them to be open minded and not be judgemental. I correct them when they categorize other people. "I don't like Indians because they smell." "I don't like blacks because they are bad." "I don't like Jews because they are cheap." Well, at least these terms are not allowed in my house. I correct them by saying, "I don't like Hasim because he smells, and I don't like Jimmy because he is bad." etc...
I have heard lots of Korean bashing stories in this site. Hope you, as a foreigner, will not judge all of the Koreans the same way. I am sorry to hear about your bad experiences but again please be open minded.
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Mrs_Hwang
(26-Oct-2003)-
Mrs Hwang speaks |
It is nice to meet you here, Richard G.:-)
Excuse me, techydriver, what comments were you expecting me to make in the way of a rebuttal? Someone was trying to help *you* understand why your ex-girlfriend acted the way she did. The person wrote a very eloquent message because you asked for an explanation. My comments are/were unnecessary.
I still find a smacking of Hitleresque diatribe around here. I'm glad Richard G is around to offer a bit of sanity. Racial prejudice is everywhere. You choose whether or not you want to get caught up in its stupidity.
Thankfully, I have positive things to say about the people I have met albeit through e-mail from Korea. I am in the middle of learning Korean and I enjoy every minute of it. I wish Korea, 남한 과 북한, all my love.
황 부인
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gemtok73
(29-Oct-2003)-
[MESSAGE DELETED] |
[MESSAGE DELETED]
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gemtok73
(29-Oct-2003)-
Come on People..how about some positive stories |
I live in Tokyo and I have quite a few Korean friends here. I know a lot of them are nice and a good number of the Korean women have foreign boyfriends and in spite of all the difficulties of culture differences, they are having the best of time. I have been looking at all the conversation threads here and I must say that I am quite discouraged by all the negativity that a lot of the respondents are actually having the time to even post here.
I am a black person and I grew up in California. I went to school with Korean as well as other asian nationalities. Actually, it may be my silent hope that I marry and live and settle down with an asian but still, that is no relevant at this stage.
There were many stereotypes associated with Korean but in time, because I MADE THE DECISION to be EDUCATED, I took the time to know many individually and also to visit their country. I have just come back from Seoul 2 weeks ago and my last visit there also was 5 years ago and while there, instead of visiting the typical bars, clubs, parties that other people go to, I instead went to palaces, temples, parks, and also on Sundays, I attended church and I met some friends while there and the experience is one that I will treasure.
My message here is that, instead of generalizing about all Korean women, why don't you take time to read on some books (not just some tourist guide book but a real book, say 1,000 pages long) and take time to truly understand. Also, keep in mind, for any person in Korea who even remotely speaks English and takes time to know a foreigner, that is a good step for them..why don't you visit Korea and spend a good 2 weeks there in traditional places and make the most to understand the history, culture, customs, traditions, and future aspirations of people in Korea and then understand your women better. I assure you, you will go much further that way.
For all people who read this thread, how about some happy stories for once and please post them as many as you can. Thank you and May the Lord Almighty bless you and look after you and all your loved ones.
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maxglove
(30-Oct-2003)-
re: Mrs Hwang speaks |
Mrs. Hwang,
The pleasure is mine as well. I am glad that someone beside myself thinks the same way. Racial or any types of discrimination exist in any country. It is not just an arrogant Korean's bad behavior. I live in USA and I have seen many cases, race, sex, color, religion, etc.
OOps. I am RichardG. I accidently deleted my username and password to get back to this site. I had to create a new one to access this site again. Duh... I know, I know.
Let me tell you how greatly I appreciate your input on this issue. I am happy to see there are many open minded people to share thoughts, cultures and love with others.
RichardG
PS)Have you thought about visiting Korea in the near future? If so, email me. I may have some friends who are interested in traveling there. maxglove@yahoo.com
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KIWI_GUY
(30-Oct-2003)-
re: Dating a KOREAN??? - BEWARE!!! |
Think about what your saying.
You after all are intruding on their culture, why should they change because of you, if the person really loved you she would have moulded her culture to yours and you should have moulded into hers.
Granted Korean culture is different and they do things that may seem unfair or mean, but that is there culutre and thats what makes it so unique and beautiful.
I wonder how did you show an interest in Korean culture, did you enjoy the food, did you learn korea?
I think you first have to figure out how Korean a Korean (or any other culture) is before you meet that person, just as you would say trying to figure out on your first date if the other person is too religous to your tastes or not.
Just like in any relationship you need to be compatabile so if you have different views on life well your not a good match.
I personaly would not go to Korea to find a Korean girl, I would go to meet someone I enjoy life with.
I have a Korean girlfriend she has lived in the same country as me for half her life so she has a great mix of both cultures and think thats why its so special, she still has her korean culture deep inside her and think thats great and I would hope our childeren develop that to..........I still have problems with the father but I understand that and respect him, but they say if you win the mother over you won, and I'm quite sure I've done
that.
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eb
(31-Oct-2003)-
Bravo |
Understanding differences in culture is a long process, and not such an easy one as we have seen.
I am sure that we all encounter things that makes us say, "What in the world is going on here?!" There are so many unique experiences that shape and influence us. Sometimes culture is a silent influence, but, my, if it isn't powerful.
The best way to approach a different culture is to be honest with what you are feeling, thinking, and questioning. Don't try to excuse something or just let it go. Dig deep... that's how this thread got started. The next thing to do is to prepare to open the floodgates of your mind, even if things seem to get blurry for a while, so that you can take in as much as possible. Eventually, and through means we may not comprehend, the "mess" will settle, and you will have some truths and some decisions to make. You can accept all, accept some, or choose to reject.
It's a kaleidescope; it's a mess. But, if you look at it just the right way, you're bound to see something beautiful, something interesting, something worthwhile. And if you don't, then it's okay to keep turning it, or look elsewhere.
It's pretty much worthless to compare good experiences and bad experiences hoping that one will eventually outweigh the other so we can, therefore, prove that all of the people who had bad experiences were just narrow minded people. Because that simply isn't true. Very good hearted, open minded people can be wronged. Welcome to our world! Don't look for answers, ask the right questions. That's the first step...
I think this thread is great because it's so honest. And I don't think it's a waste of time to say what's on your mind... it can help another person, most likely yourself.
Adios!
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Passion
(5-Nov-2003)-
midst |
Ah, Koreans! You can't love'em, nor you can't kill'em.
...Just kidding.
I'm Korean myself, the complains, opinions, advises and encourgments on this thread is very helpful. Although I can't really relate to what techydiver and the others went through, but in deep down, these painful experiences are essential for our development of how we view others and ourselves.
Imagine the process of a sword that is worthy to be used in the battle. First, the raw metal has to be heated and cooled and then pounded. This harsh process has to be repeated over and over again to strengthen the metal, so that it will not break easily under pressure. Then the sword has to be sharpened and polished, only then the finish product is worthy to be used.
It's just an illustration, but it so true. I'm sure, weather you believe God or not, but I believe that my God is shaping and preparing me to be worthy enough for my future wife, whether she is Korean or not. The process can be very painful, but I know it's worth it. You know what they say, it's better to love than not loved at all. But be wise and cautious, but do not limit your ability to love. If you give love, you will receive love.
So, keep your head up high. Remember that nothing in this world can take away the love that God has it for us.
Take care,
P.S. eb, have you thought about writing a book?
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rachelpurr
(12-Mar-2004)-
re: Dating a KOREAN??? - BEWARE!!! |
Delete
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oreonorm
(14-Aug-2004)-
re: Dating a KOREAN??? - BEWARE!!! |
Hey richard...
any concerns regarding the jeep??
email me
oerjan
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